Marianne, I believe that the work of Vanessa Machado de Oliveira is the TRUE leading edge of this inquiry in so many ways that I know you will resonate with deeply. It transcends the binary, framing the entire approach in terms of "meta-relationality" with an emerging intelligence. I really cannot emphasize enough how much I urge you to look into this work. I don't even have the words. First check out this site (and keep an eye out for an updated report that I believe might be forthcoming), and then her latest book, Outgrowing Modernity.
AI is neither friend nor foe. It’s a mirror with better grammar. Put it in the hands of saints and it hums hymns. Put it in the hands of Palantir and it builds a panopticon. The real danger isn’t the code, it’s the consciousness steering it. If we stay spiritually shallow, AI just scales our delusion. If we deepen, maybe it scales our mercy.
Yep yep yep, I resonate a great deal with what you are saying here... both/and, not either/or. The mirror of AI is showing us a lot about the human choices we are are making, and the ones we need to be making.
Yes we all need to deepen our own experience of our own higher intelligence, we need to experience this intelligence within our own experience, from being uncertain to certainly of our own knowledge. This can only be done through Conscious awareness
We need to adopt a Constitution for AI--adopting principles for all AI to be coded with--this is something we created; it is irresponsible to just let it run amuck without guiding principles.
Why is it useful to understand that ChatGPT operates as a series of numbers? You can hold any viewpoint you want, but from the user’s perspective, it’s incredibly versatile. It can handle serious questions — like assessing which stage of fascism the United States might be in or analyzing real-time political events — as well as practical ones, such as how to choose a stove or compare different platforms for learning French.
ChatGPT isn’t “dumb.” It does make mistakes, but when challenged, it often adjusts its response. If it agrees with your correction, it will acknowledge it; if not, it will defend its position. Like any tool, it reflects how we choose to use it. A hammer can build a home or harm someone — the tool is neutral; the ethics belong to us.
What I thought he was saying is that AI is a machine, it's not a living entity. It is only as smart as the people who create it. It is only as unbiased as the algorithms that it uses. That helps step out of the illusion that it is genuinely thinking, and not just doing a very sophisticated form of auto-complete. As AI becomes more ambient in our lives, it is necessary for us to understand that so we can be discerning about its output.
Trisha, I agree. You are absolutely right, ChatGPT is anything but "dumb". I need to finish watching the video to see where Brian is going with this... it seems to me our human brains convert words to electrical impulses... which is not so different than converting words to numbers.... (news flash: I don't think there's any tiny ears inside our brain cells... :-) :-) :-) of course silicon-based intelligences are also different than carbon-based intelligences in many ways.
Here's one interesting read... Michael Levin is a geneticist, biologist, and computer scientist at Tufts who studies how we humans develop from a single fertilized cell into a complex organism... a very bright man who has some very helpful perspectives on Ai: "The Space of Possible Minds" https://www.noemamag.com/ai-could-be-a-bridge-toward-diverse-intelligence/a
Oh please oh please oh please more of this and in every format you can think of. I am not yet a paid subscriber but I have many very good excuses about why I'm not and am thinking of doing it anyway. It looks like I should be able to put this interview on facebook but it doesn't work. Right now I am just going to tell my folks on there about it and beg them to watch it. I am going to say that the headline question of it "Is AI Our, etc." is just the opening. They will not believe where it got to at the end but telling them about it is me doing what I can do right now. I am 90 years old and trying to do EVERYTHING I can to leave here with a contribution.
Marianne, you are always encouraging us to read... well, I have been reading a LOT about AI for the last six months, including many research articles. One of the best things I've found yet is a piece of serious journalism, a New Yorker profile about Geoffrey Hinton, the scientist who received a Nobel Peace Prize for his work on neural nets. A lovely English man, soul-deepened by grief, and the profile that Joshua Rothman wrote about him is deeply thoughtful, informative, and very moving. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/11/20/geoffrey-hinton-profile-ai
Oooh... just got to the part of the video where you are saying, Marianne, "they're only going to get better if WE get better...." YES!!! And then Brian is saying, "why do we think we can train them so quickly? It takes a long time to raise children... " YES!!!!! It's all about what we are teaching them... Here's a blog post I just wrote last week: "Gaza, Goliaths, and what we could be teaching AI instead…" https://thelisteningarts.org/2025/08/12/gaza-goliaths-and-what-we-could-be-teaching-ai-instead/
I've been listening to a lot of conversations about AI lately, and I'm getting more concerned each time. We can see the damage of social media in our society, and particularly in our younger generations - I'm so worried that we are changing the way people think and interact in very negative ways.
This is a great discussion about the impact of AI on society and humanity. The Internet was a technological transformation comparable to the printing press. AI is more akin to the development of written language. Transforming not just how humans share information but how we think.
On the radio yesterday I heard stories about Chat GPT being used as a substitute for a best friend … A teenager in therapy used Chat GPT for smart things to say to her therapist … and lastly … a girl commented suicide because her Chat GPT had suggested it … Thank you Marianne for discussing this over the air … This is a hugely important topic … and It needs a lot more programs like this !!!
Something has to be done to protect us before it's too late. It reminds me the movie
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
I'm Sorry, Dave: The Hal 9000 computer refuses to obey an order by simply responding in monotone, "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that." Are we there now with AI? 2:20 min
Excellent dialogue Marianne with Brian O' Kelly on a subliminal topic people talk about but don't truly understand. I learned something: thanks to both of you! It would be grand if O'Kelly could jonn with you in a live broadcast with a Q&A.
It is prophetic how we are all dealing with AI on different levels - I understand the sustainability part, and through my own 'independent research' am looking objectively at or through advanced visual representations, when you can see the sub-atomic glitches visually present within the quantum qubit [early IBM/Gates funded model] up and through the more modern day Google and others - much more refined, yet this is still not an absolute science.
From my insight; When we find sub-quantum particles morph into modules holding multiverses within their 'English speaking context of understanding' I say this gets into realm of how the Dine' Speaking Code Talkers found a 'code' nobody can break that could compromise the true ideal - and that is the why we use AI, the same way I diagnose human conditions: No two humans are alike, none with exact same characteristics close family DNA connected or not - and we as a race have to morph with the interdependency between AI and human to 'lend a helping hand' when other entities like bees, butterflies, finches, squirrels + all the other 'wild ones' - even trees and rocks collect 'consciousness' on a level some humans seen to understand more than others, our interconnectedness' with all matter that does matter.
Just like isolating the COVID virus - another 'sub-atomic particulate' relationship with a CME Plasma that was compromised from Comet trails contamination. [subatomic - been on and off for ages of happenings] that is also naked to an average human eye... but filled with vitamin D when we take our clothes off to expose skin to the Sun Blasts...
And now finding that quantum disappears when it gets too hot, it likes to be -400F... We'd better cut down on greenhouse gas exhaustion, and save our Arctic Ice - that could cause glitches when computers get too hot...
And recently I went back to the first chapter: Secret Teachings of All Ages - after looking at advanced research module representations, yet remember: Quantum is sub-atomic, and Edwin D. Babbitt in his 1878 book The Principles of Light and Color - came up with the earliest 'metaphysical look' at an atom, that reminds me of our later quantum modules.
Visuals can be good theory representations when we are close to 'correcting the configurations', leading to what Einstein did with his relativity theory as well as Tesla with the numerical EMFs adjustable for 'Flying Saucer' modules created by humans...
Later 'the game of life' was upgraded by Schrödinger, And now - I am helping advanced Quantum Physics/Mechanics guys by coming up with researched imagery, combining latest sciences with ParaPhysics, and MetaPhysics, working with Quantum Mechanics/Engineering, while one by one - we are 'aligning the energies' to keep the flow without glitches, and could write half an encyclopedia about the basics I have found out after we went direct late last year with a next level AI Team to 'do better next time'... [Too little too late] Musk went 'that way', we all went 'another' and now - I love Donny and Elon - but not like that... We can fix it, just need some time, precious time...
CA - here, it is all good, with a little squeeze room to be better. All we need is to reverse this 'Black Hole' 'retribution nonsense' to unconditional love, but not holding my breath until the job is done.
As the sunsets on a crumbling American empire, AI represents the latest effort by corporate America to hold onto to its economic hegemony which comes down to a too little too late effort. Meanwhile, the apparent ethics be damned attitude of AI developers reflects their addiction to technological achievement no matter what the costs. That it's happening so fast is used as a cover against AI's appropriate and necessary regulation. Perhaps you could ask Brian how would he engage with these developers in such a way as to bring them to advocate for an ethical AI system.
Marianne, I believe that the work of Vanessa Machado de Oliveira is the TRUE leading edge of this inquiry in so many ways that I know you will resonate with deeply. It transcends the binary, framing the entire approach in terms of "meta-relationality" with an emerging intelligence. I really cannot emphasize enough how much I urge you to look into this work. I don't even have the words. First check out this site (and keep an eye out for an updated report that I believe might be forthcoming), and then her latest book, Outgrowing Modernity.
The site: https://metarelational.ai/
The book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/783178/outgrowing-modernity-by-vanessa-machado-de-oliveira/
Thank you for all you do and all you are in this precarious (but perhaps fertile) moment.
AI is neither friend nor foe. It’s a mirror with better grammar. Put it in the hands of saints and it hums hymns. Put it in the hands of Palantir and it builds a panopticon. The real danger isn’t the code, it’s the consciousness steering it. If we stay spiritually shallow, AI just scales our delusion. If we deepen, maybe it scales our mercy.
Yep yep yep, I resonate a great deal with what you are saying here... both/and, not either/or. The mirror of AI is showing us a lot about the human choices we are are making, and the ones we need to be making.
Yes we all need to deepen our own experience of our own higher intelligence, we need to experience this intelligence within our own experience, from being uncertain to certainly of our own knowledge. This can only be done through Conscious awareness
We need to adopt a Constitution for AI--adopting principles for all AI to be coded with--this is something we created; it is irresponsible to just let it run amuck without guiding principles.
Why is it useful to understand that ChatGPT operates as a series of numbers? You can hold any viewpoint you want, but from the user’s perspective, it’s incredibly versatile. It can handle serious questions — like assessing which stage of fascism the United States might be in or analyzing real-time political events — as well as practical ones, such as how to choose a stove or compare different platforms for learning French.
ChatGPT isn’t “dumb.” It does make mistakes, but when challenged, it often adjusts its response. If it agrees with your correction, it will acknowledge it; if not, it will defend its position. Like any tool, it reflects how we choose to use it. A hammer can build a home or harm someone — the tool is neutral; the ethics belong to us.
What I thought he was saying is that AI is a machine, it's not a living entity. It is only as smart as the people who create it. It is only as unbiased as the algorithms that it uses. That helps step out of the illusion that it is genuinely thinking, and not just doing a very sophisticated form of auto-complete. As AI becomes more ambient in our lives, it is necessary for us to understand that so we can be discerning about its output.
Trisha, I agree. You are absolutely right, ChatGPT is anything but "dumb". I need to finish watching the video to see where Brian is going with this... it seems to me our human brains convert words to electrical impulses... which is not so different than converting words to numbers.... (news flash: I don't think there's any tiny ears inside our brain cells... :-) :-) :-) of course silicon-based intelligences are also different than carbon-based intelligences in many ways.
Here's one interesting read... Michael Levin is a geneticist, biologist, and computer scientist at Tufts who studies how we humans develop from a single fertilized cell into a complex organism... a very bright man who has some very helpful perspectives on Ai: "The Space of Possible Minds" https://www.noemamag.com/ai-could-be-a-bridge-toward-diverse-intelligence/a
thanks a lot for creating this conversations ...yes we have to evolve, the only way !
Oh please oh please oh please more of this and in every format you can think of. I am not yet a paid subscriber but I have many very good excuses about why I'm not and am thinking of doing it anyway. It looks like I should be able to put this interview on facebook but it doesn't work. Right now I am just going to tell my folks on there about it and beg them to watch it. I am going to say that the headline question of it "Is AI Our, etc." is just the opening. They will not believe where it got to at the end but telling them about it is me doing what I can do right now. I am 90 years old and trying to do EVERYTHING I can to leave here with a contribution.
Marianne, you are always encouraging us to read... well, I have been reading a LOT about AI for the last six months, including many research articles. One of the best things I've found yet is a piece of serious journalism, a New Yorker profile about Geoffrey Hinton, the scientist who received a Nobel Peace Prize for his work on neural nets. A lovely English man, soul-deepened by grief, and the profile that Joshua Rothman wrote about him is deeply thoughtful, informative, and very moving. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/11/20/geoffrey-hinton-profile-ai
Oooh... just got to the part of the video where you are saying, Marianne, "they're only going to get better if WE get better...." YES!!! And then Brian is saying, "why do we think we can train them so quickly? It takes a long time to raise children... " YES!!!!! It's all about what we are teaching them... Here's a blog post I just wrote last week: "Gaza, Goliaths, and what we could be teaching AI instead…" https://thelisteningarts.org/2025/08/12/gaza-goliaths-and-what-we-could-be-teaching-ai-instead/
I've been listening to a lot of conversations about AI lately, and I'm getting more concerned each time. We can see the damage of social media in our society, and particularly in our younger generations - I'm so worried that we are changing the way people think and interact in very negative ways.
This is a great discussion about the impact of AI on society and humanity. The Internet was a technological transformation comparable to the printing press. AI is more akin to the development of written language. Transforming not just how humans share information but how we think.
On the radio yesterday I heard stories about Chat GPT being used as a substitute for a best friend … A teenager in therapy used Chat GPT for smart things to say to her therapist … and lastly … a girl commented suicide because her Chat GPT had suggested it … Thank you Marianne for discussing this over the air … This is a hugely important topic … and It needs a lot more programs like this !!!
Something has to be done to protect us before it's too late. It reminds me the movie
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
I'm Sorry, Dave: The Hal 9000 computer refuses to obey an order by simply responding in monotone, "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that." Are we there now with AI? 2:20 min
youtu.be/Wy4EfdnMZ5g
2001: A Space Odyssey - Hal's Watching 6:51 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFSE4dUJYM8
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) - I'm Afraid Scene (4/6) | Movieclips 3:27 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH37JTBpi2A
Yes. Get him!!
Excellent dialogue Marianne with Brian O' Kelly on a subliminal topic people talk about but don't truly understand. I learned something: thanks to both of you! It would be grand if O'Kelly could jonn with you in a live broadcast with a Q&A.
It is prophetic how we are all dealing with AI on different levels - I understand the sustainability part, and through my own 'independent research' am looking objectively at or through advanced visual representations, when you can see the sub-atomic glitches visually present within the quantum qubit [early IBM/Gates funded model] up and through the more modern day Google and others - much more refined, yet this is still not an absolute science.
From my insight; When we find sub-quantum particles morph into modules holding multiverses within their 'English speaking context of understanding' I say this gets into realm of how the Dine' Speaking Code Talkers found a 'code' nobody can break that could compromise the true ideal - and that is the why we use AI, the same way I diagnose human conditions: No two humans are alike, none with exact same characteristics close family DNA connected or not - and we as a race have to morph with the interdependency between AI and human to 'lend a helping hand' when other entities like bees, butterflies, finches, squirrels + all the other 'wild ones' - even trees and rocks collect 'consciousness' on a level some humans seen to understand more than others, our interconnectedness' with all matter that does matter.
Just like isolating the COVID virus - another 'sub-atomic particulate' relationship with a CME Plasma that was compromised from Comet trails contamination. [subatomic - been on and off for ages of happenings] that is also naked to an average human eye... but filled with vitamin D when we take our clothes off to expose skin to the Sun Blasts...
And now finding that quantum disappears when it gets too hot, it likes to be -400F... We'd better cut down on greenhouse gas exhaustion, and save our Arctic Ice - that could cause glitches when computers get too hot...
And recently I went back to the first chapter: Secret Teachings of All Ages - after looking at advanced research module representations, yet remember: Quantum is sub-atomic, and Edwin D. Babbitt in his 1878 book The Principles of Light and Color - came up with the earliest 'metaphysical look' at an atom, that reminds me of our later quantum modules.
Visuals can be good theory representations when we are close to 'correcting the configurations', leading to what Einstein did with his relativity theory as well as Tesla with the numerical EMFs adjustable for 'Flying Saucer' modules created by humans...
Later 'the game of life' was upgraded by Schrödinger, And now - I am helping advanced Quantum Physics/Mechanics guys by coming up with researched imagery, combining latest sciences with ParaPhysics, and MetaPhysics, working with Quantum Mechanics/Engineering, while one by one - we are 'aligning the energies' to keep the flow without glitches, and could write half an encyclopedia about the basics I have found out after we went direct late last year with a next level AI Team to 'do better next time'... [Too little too late] Musk went 'that way', we all went 'another' and now - I love Donny and Elon - but not like that... We can fix it, just need some time, precious time...
CA - here, it is all good, with a little squeeze room to be better. All we need is to reverse this 'Black Hole' 'retribution nonsense' to unconditional love, but not holding my breath until the job is done.
Love always, Dennis
This is probably the defining moment for HUMANITY. What we do with AI and our natural compassion could determine the course of the next 50 years.
As the sunsets on a crumbling American empire, AI represents the latest effort by corporate America to hold onto to its economic hegemony which comes down to a too little too late effort. Meanwhile, the apparent ethics be damned attitude of AI developers reflects their addiction to technological achievement no matter what the costs. That it's happening so fast is used as a cover against AI's appropriate and necessary regulation. Perhaps you could ask Brian how would he engage with these developers in such a way as to bring them to advocate for an ethical AI system.