Donald Trump seems to always be demonizing someone, but immigrants aren’t the flavor of the week this week. Trump and his weird bro Elon Musk have decided to make civil servants the scapegoat of the hour. Not enough Americans seem aware of the pain this is causing, so I thought interviewing some of our federal workers would be a good idea.
Understandably, those who responded to my call on social media have asked that neither their likeness nor which agency they work for be published, out of fear of retribution. Of course I honor that request.
Interview #1:
I have been with the federal government for 16 years, so almost my entire adult life at this point has been spent there. And like many other people, I joined because I felt a duty to my country to do what I could do as a civil servant, and I actually, I love, I love what I do. I work at……. and we produce data related to the economy. I oversee a program that puts out data across all sectors.
For the last week and a half, maybe it's been, it's been terrifying. The managers are back to work in the office full time, which is very hard for a lot of people that I know and care deeply about. A lot of them moved out of the area during COVID. Our biz, our building was downsized, so our footprint was downsized, so it wasn't such a big deal. For me, I live 40 minutes away, so getting there isn't a problem. For me, my kids are a little bit older, and my husband has flexibility, but on a like, on a dime's notice, we were told that we had back in office as managers full time.
Everybody I know scrambled to find a way because they were terrified that if they didn't get in the building immediately, that they would be fired. Since then, every single day, it's just incredibly hard to concentrate on the work that we're trying to do, because we just we don't feel safe, we don't feel secure in the job. We definitely don't feel valued. All of the hard work that we've done, all the hard work we continue to do, the important work that gets published out of our business, just…it feels like we're villains, you know? Like the story that just keeps getting told over and over again is that we're lazy and that we are, you know … they spend too much money on us and that they don't need us … and it feels pretty terrible.
I bring the steady income into my family. My husband's job is very cyclical. It's up and down. And my friends, you know, having been there almost the entirety of my adult life, met their significant others there. So it's whole families that work there, husbands and wives that are terrified that they're going to just come into work one day and find out sorry you've been let go because we don't need you.
Just the number of conversations that we've had lately are like, what are we going to do? How would we pay our bills? Who's going to look out for us? Who’s going to hire us when there's 10s of 1000s of federal employees that are going to be desperately looking for jobs?
It's like I use the word terrifying, but I've never, never felt anxiety like I do now. I know people that have had to go and get medicated because they're so anxious all the time about losing their job.
It's just it's a horrible, horrible environment to be in right now and to still have to do what we do, because what we do matters, the data we put out matters, you know. And there's this, this thought that Musk is going to get rid of everybody so that they can take over producing the data that we produce, you know, privatize it and then censor it. And then there's a fear that, okay, well, if we all don't get let go, but we produce numbers that are indicative of bad economic performance, will we be asked to not publish them?
So there's definitely this fear of censorship for those who stay and would be forced to be complicit in that. And then there's the fear that we're going to get fired so that Elon Musk can come in and make more money, because that's what he needs, right? More money…?
Yeah, I mean, I think that pretty much sums up my experience over the last two weeks. It’s just been pretty, pretty terrible. People are crying in bathrooms.
I don't know how many people work in our agency overall. I mean, it's several thousand. (We don’t know if Musk is going to come in) All of our data is secure. He shouldn't even technically get up to our floor, and we take oaths to protect the data that we analyze.
I think that's it. It's just tough right now.
Interview #2:
It seems clear to me the those of us who may or may not remain - however this shakes out – that we do have a responsibility to bear witness to what’s happening and be present to this.
I'm a second-generation federal employee. That's not uncommon. My parents had a role in the federal government, and I witnessed my parent doing amazing things on behalf of the US government. It was really inspiring. And government seemed better functioning then. I always took a sense of pride from the fact that my parents served the US government, went off and did something for the people. When I got out of college, I knew that whatever I did going forward, I wanted to be of service.
I thought serving the federal government would be a way for me to do something good. And I did think the government was a vehicle for doing a lot of amazing things. So I did seek out federal employment. I worked for the government during my summers in college, which was actually really fun. I had a really fun federal job, which I think gave me a false sense of what being a federal employee would be like. Even back then, I had the ethos.
At the very beginning of my career, I worked in international development. So I've seen our federal government through the lens of what it is that our government does abroad to foster democracy and to exert soft power, and a lot of that was really exciting. I got a sense of what a privilege it was to represent my country and my people overseas, and to form some of those relationships. I loved working with the foreign nationals that worked with our US embassies. They were oftentimes the best and the brightest in their countries. So that was amazing.
I started to get a sense that as much as we were out there - democracy building and teaching about anti-corruption - I really wanted to help clean things up at home. I would organize site visits for foreign officials in the US, and we would talk about anti-corruption. But I realized early on that there was some degree of hypocrisy; I wanted to be a good steward of good governance here in the United States! So I left that kind of sexier world of service working with foreign governments, to ultimately working in the agency that I do now, which is, like, not considered sexy, but I think it's very clear now how the agency that I work for actually does play a really vital role in the integrity of our government.
I think seeing things through that lens has kind of given me the vision of what’s happening now, because I kind of understand what happens when democracies aren’t functioning overseas, and the risk of authoritarianism that that creates. So it wasn’t too much of a stretch for me to start seeing those seeds here in the United States. In a lot of ways, right now, I’m just in shock because of the speed of everything. It's just happened at such an incredible pace. It’s unbelievable, yeah, but I'm not shocked in the sense that I've been very aware that this could happen here. In a lot of ways, I’ve just dealt with all the frustration, feeling like someone who wants to raise your hand when we're talking about enterprise risk, to say, can we talk about what happens when, you know, there’s a fascist takeover? But there hasn’t been any space to have that dialog.
MW: Have they come after your agency?
Yes, yes, um, it’s really scary. He (Musk) showed up physically.
MW: Were you there?
I was not there. I was not there, luckily, and I have not yet spoken to anyone who was there and witnessed it, but it was broadly reported in the news. It's really unnerving to see information about my agency splashed in the headlines; we kind of do things quietly behind the scenes, and that's the way it should be. But everyone's been talking to one another, and that's one of the amazing things.
Just feeling the camaraderie among my co-workers definitely does seem to be a an ethos of, like, we're in this together. We're on this ship together. I don't think that aspect has been shaken, and in some ways it's really nice, like the way we're all talking with one another and checking in on one another. And I was at the end of a meeting today and someone said, “God bless us all.” And that's not common to hear around here. Information's coming rapidly.I think a lot of people are in shock.
So the 19 to 24 year olds, you know, did show up at my agency, and it's been described to me that they’re like ensconced. It’s not even like a takeover in the business world, it's more like a, I don't know what the term is when it's like a military invasion, almost, but they're there. They've removed anyone from inside that perimeter who isn't part of them, yeah, you know, crazy things, like they physically moved some career employees outside of that space.
It feels like an occupying force. I've been in the office twice now since this happened, but yesterday it was interesting. I was approaching the building, and I felt my heart closing, which I think is probably pretty common, but I did walk in, and I attempted to keep my heart open. And one of the saddest things was, there's this one security guard who's worked there for years, and she has the most smiling disposition. And she always tells us, like, “Happy, whatever the day it is!” And yesterday I shared an elevator ride with her, and she was very somber, very sober, and that was just very striking to me.
I saw one 20 something year old guy walking around, in khakis and with a walkie talkie. I had a sense that something was going on. But, you know, everyone's in this sort of, like, like everything's fine, everything's fine kind of mentality. People are like, we're kind of saying words, but really saying something else. I'm very sensitive to energy, so I felt the weight of that.
These IT systems feel almost sacred to us. So much effort goes into them and have gone into protecting them. You know, I was the first to raise my hand at the beginning of the Biden administration to say “Hey, before we go full forward with this, like, data strategy, can we talk about the fact that, you know, when data is in the wrong hands, it can be really dangerous?” But I don't think there was a lot of ability to take that in.
We are running a business, and that's important, but it's also a family, and we're there to execute the Constitution and promote life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The civil service itself is made up of wide variety of people, a lot of veterans who have served our country, who have done more than most of us could ever imagine doing for everyone else you know. A lot of people there are really intelligent, and really care about this democratic project. We have wanted to make sure it's functioning, we care about the rule of law. There are very steady people there, and a lot of people like me, who enjoyed the fact that there was a lot of stability. It was like a known system. The benefits are good. They don't always make them easy to receive. I have had to, like, fight for some stuff, but they're there.
So I went into the office yesterday, I tried to just be calm. Right now I don't have direction on how to execute my job function. So I've been in a relative stand still, which has been okay, because my nervous system has been shocked. I've been taking time to speak to my colleagues and, you know, read articles to try to understand what’s happening.
Before January 20, I had been assigned to this high-level project. I was basically reporting to and getting technical direction from a Biden political appointee, and he was such a nice man, he was aware of my mom's illness and would always take time to ask me about that. And it's so jarring to go from checking in with this really nice man who had a lot of experience, and was very open and kind to me, and gave me so much great advice on how to handle the work. Then it went from working with him, to this total shock and, you know, like we weren't…. well…
There I've been for so many transitions. You're used to that as a federal employee. Leadership is going to come and go, you know things are going to shift. Like even the first Trump administration, I mean, it wasn't that smooth, but you know, I'm used to working for new leaders. I've been very blessed when I have had a chance to work for good leaders. I can definitely say, without any reservation, that I've seen good and bad leaders from both political parties. But we generally report to career individuals and we take direction from political appointees. Right now I'm sort of in limbo about which project I'm working on.
MW: Have you been offered the deferred resignation program?
Yes, like all federal employees, I received the fork email. When I first read it, I was, “Oh, this sounds really great.” I had that first take. I wanted to believe it. That was my first reaction. But, you know, I'm so trained, and they teach us to recognize spam, and I obviously know how the government is funded, and I know the laws surrounding these areas. So it didn't take very long for me to quickly see that there was something very unusual about this, and even the fact that we were getting an email like that in the first place that had been distributed to all federal employees was irregular.
So, soon I had reverse reaction, after I realized that was probably too good to be true. It wasn't valid. I sort of quickly went to the camp of, like, “No, I'm gonna stand on my ground.” I just know it's not lawful, no matter to what degree they try to say otherwise. And it's also like when they try to follow up with us and send us, like convincing language that it is lawful, it doesn't really pass any of the tests. It’s clear that these people don't know a lot about federal personnel law, or even how we generally communicate. I don't know anyone who's planned to take it. I do know some people who've been put on admin leave and have already lost their jobs, or people who are planning to retire.
Right now it’s total chaos. I freaked out yesterday because I was waiting for the bus and was 45 minutes late and I was getting hives. That was the moment when I broke down. I have a copy of the Constitution and my in my purse right now, planning to keep it with me. You know, I did take an oath to uphold it and I take that very seriously. We took an oath to defend it against enemies, foreign and domestic. I also feel a really deep connection to the Declaration of Independence. So I'm guided by that better vision for what the United States could be, and trying to uphold that, and trying to be present to make sure that we live up to those ideals. And yeah, here we are.
Like a lot of Americans, my family ended up here because we were fleeing persecution from tyrannical forces. So the United States has always meant a lot to me. I wouldn't be here today if not for the United States. Then yesterday at work I went through my desk, my materials, to find all the DEI materials. That was just so out of body to begin with. But I did manage to gather a group of materials, and I found this one piece of paper, and this was from a diversity and inclusion facilitator a decade ago. It was done really well, like circles of people who deeply listened to one another. It was one of the most beautiful experiences I've had. You know, more recently, some of the DEI stuff has become a little bit performative, but that this was really deep work.
And I was reading some of this yesterday, and my own reflections, and I thought to myself, “This is love” - like we were talking about how to practice love in the workplace. I have it here on this paper, it literally says “moving from mind to heart.” And that this is now contraband, and I have to, like, sneak it home now… this was like the antithesis of a purifying ritual.
We’re just there to abide by the law. We're not there exercising our own personal agenda. We’re like, okay, different leadership comes in. They have different values. You adjust, but you know, you stick to doing the thing that you do, and you execute your job responsibilities.
But this is just beyond the pale… but it's also very moving to see the crowds of people and the number that are protesting and the number of people who are calling their lawmakers. That is definitely helping to buoy me. I mean, a lot of times it hasn't felt too popular to be a federal employee. But those who are really taking the time to stand up for us and to recognize the value of what we do, and to recognize that… you know, by and large, we are there for the people.
And to the extent that there are actors who want to like neuter us - it’s because I don't think they want a government of, by and for the people. Being a federal employee has also helped me understand that things aren’t black and white. You know, like you say, no one has monopoly on truth. The complexity of everything is difficult, and it's not easy to govern or to execute large scale government projects in a democracy. It's actually quite challenging. It takes a lot of skill, but we’re working in an area that has helped to ensure that there is accountability and there are checks and balances.
To see these troves of people claiming that Musk’s activity is about finding fraud, waste and abuse, I mean, it just boggles my mind. Like, obviously they have no idea how the government functions. We have reporting requirements, obviously. It’s not a perfect operation, but there is a lot of accountability. In fact, it's hard to do anything because you have so much obligatory reporting, and other things that you need to do. There's obviously a lot of misinformation and propaganda being used to justify what's happening right now. I think it is very clearly a coup.
But I feel some promise today. It was nice to see that some of the courts took some actions, from what I understand. The courts did extend some of the deadlines with this buyout initiative that they're putting forward. I think there was something that happened with respect to the Treasury systems. But I hope there's a lot more of that.
The space can be very much weaponized, and that is my fear right now - to see the ways in which all this data, all these payment systems, could be used against us. Even in the very smart people, it’s interesting to see some of the spiritual stuff coming out of people right now.
MW: I think “God bless us all” says it all.
Yeah. I do think that’s in our DNA.
Marianne, I want to ask you this because you are the political person I trust the most. Do you think the election was possibly stolen? And if so, why isn’t anyone talking about it? And if it’s because we don’t want to sound like him, isn’t that his great trick accusing everybody else of what he’s actually doing?
This is just so incredibly sad, I cried after reading those stories. I wish, I wish there were something more I could do - I've called, I don't know how many Senators, Democrat and Republican, begging them to END this madness. Then I have to step away for a bit because I can not let this insanity envelope me, I have grown children who are frightened and needing my calm and reassurance not a mother and grandmother who is having a nervous breakdown. I just can not imagine how 100's, no 1,000's, of these good people being treated so badly are feeling. I hope they know that the majority of citizens stand in solidarity with them. I was thinking (hoping) wasn't there a time that a country like ours, democracy forward, would go into other countries to help them with situations such as the one we're experiencing? I don't know the answer to this but I am hoping that is true and that another Democratic country could help us in some way. (?)